Re: [dinosaur] Archaeopteryx had active flapping flight ability based on wing bone geometry (free pdf)

[Ruben Safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com>]

On 03/14/2018 11:37 PM, Mike Habib wrote:
> Anatomically, hind limb proportions and position predict launch mode in 
> birds, not sternal morphology or forelimb morphology. 

I don't accept that it is an either/or proposition. And since, as you
say, we have little data on the wing lift comparisons, I believe it even
less.  And on ancient extinct species without a sternum et al, even less
than that.  One thing that is certain, without the wings, it can leap
all day and land on its face.

BTW - gulls did come to mind.  I've spend decades watching gulls closely

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.mrbrklyn.com_images_2017-5Ffishing-5Fmarilyn-5Fjean_seagull.png&d=DwICaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=T9mOYPJGYtm6kb_hP9RxzBdVuEAIEfre37ksUjismbw&s=DtLMPGD78BSor9CiLJ8OEBt7hBRV_4bizH40FAz-RGI&e=
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.mrbrklyn.com_images_2017-5Ffishing-5Fmarilyn-5Fjean_seagull-5F3-5F800.png&d=DwICaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=T9mOYPJGYtm6kb_hP9RxzBdVuEAIEfre37ksUjismbw&s=y3qgzsCT1RmkcXKfp6L6thvJiGTbF0OP0t56WF4Xry4&e=

The most common time they use there breast muscles are on launch and it
is unfathomable that they could launch terrestrially from the ground
without the modern wing stroke.  On the open ocean they try to use
prevailing wind.  Anyway, I think birds will launch anyway they can.
Modern birds prefer to leap and stroke, but they have a highly evolved
flight stroke to do that with and they are still not enslaved to that.