Re: [dinosaur] Archaeopteryx had active flapping flight ability based on wing bone geometry (free pdf)

[Ruben Safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com>]

>> Furthermore, despite what Earls says, I recommend you walk
>> out to Sheepshead Bay in Brooklyn and watch how Swans and Ducks actually
>> get into the air.  Swans are not leaping into the air and then taking
>> off on winged power.  They 100% depend on building air speed with a
>> combination of flight stroke and running on the water.
> 
> Not true.  Mike has dealt with this point quite eloquently, so I won't
> say anything further.
> 
> 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_T8OoFbYYeec-3Ft-3D64&d=DwICaQ&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=JMxjjbIZXCWilersPs1bzRx-3mUwTiQUzlyzWk7v7k4&m=-4p6RHAu2M9GhEZ7UpWpqa_W4yUKh0dJIudlnwXTfac&s=2fY3MC1oFLs7toShy6IWzNIFiEbmXIncCI3vVGQSvzk&e=

swans, 100% need a running start to get in the air.  I think that
Archaeopteryx would need a similar take off.  It is that need for a
running launch that would present the opportunity for the changes to
come in Birds.  If the bird lived in trees, there wouldn't be so much
need for the change in shoulder, and sternum.

>> Without a
>> sternum to anchor chest muscles, that is going to be more true, not
>> less.  Flight stroke IS 100% essential.
> 
> 
> Yes, a flight stroke of some sort is 100% essential.  But not
> necessarily the sophisticated flight stroke of modern advanced flying
> birds.  [Note that Rauhut et al. (2018 DOI 10.7717/peerj.4191)
> interpret _Archaeopteryx_ as having a large cartilaginous sternum, not
> preserved in any specimen. ]

Right.  I never said otherwise.  I'm saying that the lack of a modern
launching method does not, to me, suggest it lived in trees.  It
suggests to me that it lived on the ground and likely was able to fly
from island to island in the warm European Caribbean like topography.
It might have even needed that tail in the way that the Wright Brothers
first aeroplane needed its tail and center of gravity to give it
stability was lower speed.

It might be in trees, especially for nesting.  But it doesn't have great
enough efficiency of a launch mechanism to routinely reach tree tops.
They would be climbing up the tree like a squirrel.

Is there a 3d model of the shoulder somewhere?