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RE: Ankylosaur Side-Body Spikes? (was TRex - Ankylosaur specialist?)

To: Ken.Carpenter@dmns.org
Subject: RE: Ankylosaur Side-Body Spikes? (was TRex - Ankylosaur specialist?)
From: Vlad Petnicki <bucketfoot-al@justice.com>
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 19:27:33 +0000 (America/Los_Angeles)
Cc: dinosaur@usc.edu
Reply-to: bucketfoot-al@justice.com
Sender: owner-DINOSAUR@usc.edu

*DOH!* (Sound of palm hitting forehead).  I bet that
there was confusion about this way back in the 1970s,
too - at least among illustrators.

HARUMPH!  So my customized Ankylosaurus model (as seen
on my web gallery
http://bucketfoot-al.tripod.com/DinoModels/)- with
side-body spikes is wrong, eh?  (Cue "South Park's"
Eric Cartman voice: "G-DM-IT!")

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 12:35:48 -0600,
Ken.Carpenter@dmns.org wrote:

> 
> Vlad,
> The specimen in question is Edmontonia, not
> Ankylosaurus. See my pdf
> articles describing the specimen at link below.
> Basically (big
> generalization), nodosaurids and polacanthids have
> larger spines along
> the side of the body than ankylosaurds.
> Ken
> 
> 
> Kenneth Carpenter, Ph.D.
> Curator of Lower Vertebrate Paleontology/
> Chief Preparator
> Department of Earth Sciences
> Denver Museum of Nature & Science
> 2001 Colorado Blvd.
> Denver, CO 80205
>  
> Phone: 303-370-6392
> Fax: 303-331-6492
> 
> for PDFs of some of my publications, as well as
> information of the Cedar
> Mountain Project: 
>
https://scientists.dmns.org/sites/kencarpenter/default.aspx
> ++++++++++++++++++
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vlad Petnicki
[mailto:bucketfoot-al@justice.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:28 PM
> To: Ken Carpenter
> Cc: dinosaur@usc.edu
> Subject: Ankylosaur Side-Body Spikes? (was TRex -
> Ankylosaur
> specialist?)
> 
> Ken, if you would permit me a quick question for you -
> I distinctly
> remember the very fine Ankylosaur mount at the
American
> Museum of
> Natural History in NYC (the front half of the animal
> only) having side
> body spikes, which is how all Ankylosaur
> reconstructions were portrayed
> in the 1970s;
> 
> but all the recent reconstructions I have seen appear
> to omit them -
> what's the story here?
> 
> On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 12:23:17 -0600, 
> 
> Ken.Carpenter@dmns.org wrote:
> 
> > 
> > T rex probably ate any juvenile dumb enough to get
> within biting 
> > distance
> > 
> > 
> > Kenneth Carpenter, Ph.D.
> > Curator of Lower Vertebrate Paleontology/ Chief
> Preparator Department 
> > of Earth Sciences Denver Museum of Nature & Science
> > 2001 Colorado Blvd.
> > Denver, CO 80205
> >  
> > Phone: 303-370-6392
> > Fax: 303-331-6492
> > 
> > for PDFs of some of my publications, as well as
> information of the 
> > Cedar Mountain Project:
> >
>
https://scientists.dmns.org/sites/kencarpenter/default.aspx
> > ++++++++++++++++++
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-DINOSAUR@usc.edu
> > [mailto:owner-DINOSAUR@usc.edu] On Behalf Of
> bucketfoot-al@justice.com
> > Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:21 PM
> > To: Ken Carpenter
> > Cc: dinosaur@usc.edu
> > Subject: RE: T. rex as ankylosaur specialist
> > 
> > Actually Ken, if you consider my earlier comment
that
> TRex would 
> > probably only go after juvenile Ankylosaurids, I
> think it would have 
> > been feasible for it to bite down on the neck/head
> while leveraging 
> > one foot on top of the Ankylosaurus (and necessary
to
> keep the animal 
> > from thrashing out of the grip of the TRex
> > Jaws.)
> > 
> > No TRex in its right mind would go after a
full-grown
> Ankylosaurid, I 
> > agree completely on that.  The adults would probably
> have been close 
> > to impervious to attack, and you correclty point out
> one of the 
> > reasons why the 'frontal attack' on an adult
> Ankylosaur would not have
> 
> > been likely to succeed....
> > 
> > On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 12:15:42 -0600,
> > Ken.Carpenter@dmns.org wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > Sorry, no, it does not make sense. Both Edmontonia
> > and Ankylosaurus
> > > (Hell Creek and Lance Fms) were too tall and
massive
> > for a T rex to
> > > hold down with one foot.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Kenneth Carpenter, Ph.D.
> > > Curator of Lower Vertebrate Paleontology/ Chief
> Preparator 
> > > Department of Earth Sciences Denver Museum of
> Nature & Science
> > > 2001 Colorado Blvd.
> > > Denver, CO 80205
> > >  
> > > Phone: 303-370-6392
> > > Fax: 303-331-6492
> > > 
> > > for PDFs of some of my publications, as well as
> information of the 
> > > Cedar Mountain Project:
> > >
> >
>
https://scientists.dmns.org/sites/kencarpenter/default.aspx
> > > ++++++++++++++++++
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-DINOSAUR@usc.edu
> > > [mailto:owner-DINOSAUR@usc.edu] On Behalf Of 
> > > bucketfoot-al@justice.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:13 PM
> > > To: Jerzy.Dyczkowski@unibas.ch
> > > Cc: dinosaur@usc.edu
> > > Subject: RE: T. rex as ankylosaur specialist
> > > 
> > > Good point.  However I still think hat my
head/neck
> bite hypothesis 
> > > makes more sense...because as it bit down on the
> neck/head of the 
> > > Ankylosaur the TRex could have placed one foot on
> top
> > > of the
> > > Ankylosaur's back, pushing it down to immobilize
it
> under its own 
> > > weight and allowing the TRex to get a more secure
> death
> grip,
> > > which it could
> > > hold til the animal died...does this makes sense
to
> > the
> > > palaeontologists
> > > out there?
> > > 
> > > On Thu,  1 Jun 2006 20:02:53 +0200,
> > > Jerzy.Dyczkowski@unibas.ch wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Quoting bucketfoot-al@justice.com:
> > > > 
> > > > > Well, I suppose TRex might have been able to
> > 'flip'
> > > a
> > > > > small Ankylosaur, but a full-grown one would
> have
> > > been
> > > > > impossible to flip given the respective
centres
> of
> > > gravity and body
> > > > > mass
> > > > 
> > > > I thought that ankylosaurids were not flipped
> > > completely upside down,
> > > > but just bent enough to expose sides and legs
> from a
> > > killing bite. 
> > > > Armor of some ankylosaurids has a frill of
spikes
> > > pointing sideways,
> > > > clearly protecting lower body from bite from
> above.
> > > > 
> > > > Jerzy Dyczkowski
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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> > > Messaging
> > > > Program.
> > > 
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