RE: Ankylosaur Side-Body Spikes? (was TRex - Ankylosaur specialist?)

[Ken.Carpenter@dmns.org]

Vlad,
The specimen in question is Edmontonia, not Ankylosaurus. See my pdf
articles describing the specimen at link below. Basically (big
generalization), nodosaurids and polacanthids have larger spines along
the side of the body than ankylosaurds.
Ken


Kenneth Carpenter, Ph.D.
Curator of Lower Vertebrate Paleontology/
Chief Preparator
Department of Earth Sciences
Denver Museum of Nature & Science
2001 Colorado Blvd.
Denver, CO 80205
 
Phone: 303-370-6392
Fax: 303-331-6492

for PDFs of some of my publications, as well as information of the Cedar
Mountain Project: 
https://scientists.dmns.org/sites/kencarpenter/default.aspx
++++++++++++++++++

-----Original Message-----
From: Vlad Petnicki [mailto:bucketfoot-al@justice.com] 
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:28 PM
To: Ken Carpenter
Cc: dinosaur@usc.edu
Subject: Ankylosaur Side-Body Spikes? (was TRex - Ankylosaur
specialist?)

Ken, if you would permit me a quick question for you - I distinctly
remember the very fine Ankylosaur mount at the American Museum of
Natural History in NYC (the front half of the animal only) having side
body spikes, which is how all Ankylosaur reconstructions were portrayed
in the 1970s;

but all the recent reconstructions I have seen appear to omit them -
what's the story here?

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 12:23:17 -0600, 

Ken.Carpenter@dmns.org wrote:

> 
> T rex probably ate any juvenile dumb enough to get within biting 
> distance
> 
> 
> Kenneth Carpenter, Ph.D.
> Curator of Lower Vertebrate Paleontology/ Chief Preparator Department 
> of Earth Sciences Denver Museum of Nature & Science
> 2001 Colorado Blvd.
> Denver, CO 80205
>  
> Phone: 303-370-6392
> Fax: 303-331-6492
> 
> for PDFs of some of my publications, as well as information of the 
> Cedar Mountain Project:
>
https://scientists.dmns.org/sites/kencarpenter/default.aspx
> ++++++++++++++++++
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-DINOSAUR@usc.edu
> [mailto:owner-DINOSAUR@usc.edu] On Behalf Of bucketfoot-al@justice.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:21 PM
> To: Ken Carpenter
> Cc: dinosaur@usc.edu
> Subject: RE: T. rex as ankylosaur specialist
> 
> Actually Ken, if you consider my earlier comment that TRex would 
> probably only go after juvenile Ankylosaurids, I think it would have 
> been feasible for it to bite down on the neck/head while leveraging 
> one foot on top of the Ankylosaurus (and necessary to keep the animal 
> from thrashing out of the grip of the TRex
> Jaws.)
> 
> No TRex in its right mind would go after a full-grown Ankylosaurid, I 
> agree completely on that.  The adults would probably have been close 
> to impervious to attack, and you correclty point out one of the 
> reasons why the 'frontal attack' on an adult Ankylosaur would not have

> been likely to succeed....
> 
> On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 12:15:42 -0600,
> Ken.Carpenter@dmns.org wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Sorry, no, it does not make sense. Both Edmontonia
> and Ankylosaurus
> > (Hell Creek and Lance Fms) were too tall and massive
> for a T rex to
> > hold down with one foot.
> > 
> > 
> > Kenneth Carpenter, Ph.D.
> > Curator of Lower Vertebrate Paleontology/ Chief Preparator 
> > Department of Earth Sciences Denver Museum of Nature & Science
> > 2001 Colorado Blvd.
> > Denver, CO 80205
> >  
> > Phone: 303-370-6392
> > Fax: 303-331-6492
> > 
> > for PDFs of some of my publications, as well as information of the 
> > Cedar Mountain Project:
> >
>
https://scientists.dmns.org/sites/kencarpenter/default.aspx
> > ++++++++++++++++++
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-DINOSAUR@usc.edu
> > [mailto:owner-DINOSAUR@usc.edu] On Behalf Of 
> > bucketfoot-al@justice.com
> > Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:13 PM
> > To: Jerzy.Dyczkowski@unibas.ch
> > Cc: dinosaur@usc.edu
> > Subject: RE: T. rex as ankylosaur specialist
> > 
> > Good point.  However I still think hat my head/neck bite hypothesis 
> > makes more sense...because as it bit down on the neck/head of the 
> > Ankylosaur the TRex could have placed one foot on
top
> > of the
> > Ankylosaur's back, pushing it down to immobilize it under its own 
> > weight and allowing the TRex to get a more secure death
grip,
> > which it could
> > hold til the animal died...does this makes sense to
> the
> > palaeontologists
> > out there?
> > 
> > On Thu,  1 Jun 2006 20:02:53 +0200,
> > Jerzy.Dyczkowski@unibas.ch wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > Quoting bucketfoot-al@justice.com:
> > > 
> > > > Well, I suppose TRex might have been able to
> 'flip'
> > a
> > > > small Ankylosaur, but a full-grown one would
have
> > been
> > > > impossible to flip given the respective centres
of
> > gravity and body
> > > > mass
> > > 
> > > I thought that ankylosaurids were not flipped
> > completely upside down,
> > > but just bent enough to expose sides and legs
from a
> > killing bite. 
> > > Armor of some ankylosaurids has a frill of spikes
> > pointing sideways,
> > > clearly protecting lower body from bite from
above.
> > > 
> > > Jerzy Dyczkowski
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >
> >
>
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