Re: T rex bites your bum

[don ohmes <d_ohmes@yahoo.com>]

I don't know if toxicity of human bites is a myth or
not, but I bet if dog bites were highly toxic there
wouldn't be many mailpersons (or canine pets). :)

Comments below:

--- Phil Bigelow <bigelowp@juno.com> wrote:

> I hope I'm not perpetuating another urban myth by
> stating this, but I've
> read that human bites often create more serious
> infections in people than
> do dog bites.
> 
> If true, then it suggests that many oral bacteria
> are relatively safe,
> provided that they don't get injected into the
> lymphatic system or into
> the blood stream.  The proportions of oral bacterial
> species probably
> varies greatly between vertebrate taxa.  _T. rex_
> saliva may have been
> more lethal to other _T. rexes_ than it was to _T.
> rex's_ prey.

In the case of intraspecific aggression, isn't that
generally unlikely from a selective viewpoint? Maybe
they never fought each other, but given the tiny arms
and the need to breed...

Even if Komodo resource aquisition is improved by
toxic saliva, I still think it is a stretch to apply
it to dinos biting dinos. The tooth serrations sure
are nasty looking in the photos of T rex teeth,
though.

Can anybody out there comment on the idea that venom
toxicity (in vertebrates) generally correlates
positively with genetic "distance"?

> One of the many ideas in paleontology that can't be
> tested.
> 
> <pb>
> --
> 
> On Mon, 23 May 2005 06:17:27 -0700 (PDT) don ohmes
> <d_ohmes@yahoo.com>
> writes:
> > Doesn't the toxicity of Komodo bite depend in part
> on
> > who they are biting? In that reptiles are not as
> > strongly affected as mammals for obvious
> evolutionary
> > reasons? If a Komodo bit itself, would it die?
> > 
> > Or do Bakker et al postulate a suite of bacteria
> that
> > T.rex was immune to, yet strongly affected T. rex
> > prey?
> > 
> > I've observed crotolids feeding in the wild, and I
> > agree that a following strategy would not benefit
> > Komodos over the time/distances involved. To
> > extrapolate to dinos seems a huge stretch...
> > 
> > --- Phil Bigelow <bigelowp@juno.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Sun, 22 May 2005 22:08:17 -0400 Jordan Mallon
> > > <jordan.mallon@gmail.com> writes:
> > >  
> > > > > I read this "following strategy" all the
> time
> > > (Horner, Abler, 
> > > > Bakker,
> > > > > Curie have repeated this for years), but
> what is
> > > the original 
> > > > source for
> > > > > the info?
> > > 
> > >  
> > > > I'm pretty sure Abler first put the idea
> forward.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Well, the only Abler paper I have is his 1992
> paper
> > > in _Paleobiology_
> > > 18(2):161-183.  Nowhere in his paper does Abler
> > > state that the Komodo
> > > Dragon follows or stalks its wounded and/or
> infected
> > > prey.  Abler does
> > > make *one* comment about Komodos being "able to
> > > subue previously bitten
> > > prey".  But as far as we know, the prey item may
> not
> > > have wandered from
> > > the site of the intial attack (most of the
> monitor's
> > > larger prey on
> > > Flores and Komodo Islands are domestic cattle
> and
> > > the occassional water
> > > buffalo, both of which have extremely limited
> > > ranges).  Abler's only
> > > primary sources on the Komodo Dragon were two
> > > reports:
> > > 
> > > Auffenberg, W. 1981.  The behavioral ecology of
> the
> > > Komodo Monitor. 
> > > University of Florida  Press, Gainesville, Fla.
> > > 
> > > Blair, L.. and L. Blair.  1987/1988.  Dance of
> the
> > > Warriors [Film]. 
> > > Blair Brothers Productions, WGBH Educational
> > > Foundation, and WGBH ,
> > > Boston.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > In his pop-sci book _The Complete T. rex_, John
> > > Horner (1993) mentions
> > > Abler's (1992) research, but Horner doesn't go
> as
> > > far as to claim that
> > > Komodo Dragons actually followed or stalked
> dying
> > > prey.
> > > 
> > > I haven't seen Blair and Blair's film, nor have
> I
> > > read Auffenberg's
> > > paper, so I remain open-minded to the
> possibility
> > > that Komodos do this. 
> > > But it is possible that the claim is an urban
> myth.
> > > 
> > > Compared to mammals and birds, lizards utilize a
> > > much different energy
> > > conservation plan, involving long periods of
> > > inactivity punctuated with
> > > short bursts of activity.  Therefore, it would
> be
> > > *much* more energy
> > > efficient for a lizard to eat whatever prey item
> > > keels over closest to
> > > where the lizard is sleeping.  And if a
> different
> > > Komodo inflicted the
> > > original infectious bite, it won't matter a bit
> to
> > > the other Komodo who
> > > happened upon the corpse.
> > > 
> > > <pb>
> > > --
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
>