Re: Avaceratops and Ceratops (was Re: THE NEW ISH OF JVP)

["Timothy Williams" <twilliams_alpha@hotmail.com>]

Mickey Mortimer wrote:

> First of all, does anyone know where Penkalski and Dodson place
> Turanoceratops in their new paper?  Above or below Avaceratops?

They don't put _Turanoceratops_ (nor _Zuni_) in their cladogram, but mention 
both in passing.  Both are probably basal ceratopsids.

> This is only because they use the term "arctometatarsal" incorrectly.  Note
> that their description reads "proximally, however, the third metatarsal of
> the Thai form is still visible in anterior view, as a thin sliver of bone
> between the proximal ends of metatarsals II and IV".  And indeed, the 
> figure
> illustrates this well- you can still see metatarsal III just fine between 
> II
> and IV in both proximal and anterior views.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but
> isn't the arctometatarsalian condition that in which metatarsals II and IV
> contact each other proximally?  The Thai form is pretty close to
> arctometatarsaly (as would be expected in an ancestor of truly
> arctometatarsalian forms), but isn't quite there yet.

Yeah, you're right Mickey.  In the Thai ornithomimosaur the proximal part of 
Mt III is pinched but not completely blocked from view by II and IV.


Tim
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