Re: no feathers on Pelicanimimus

[Nick Longrich <longrich@phoenix.Princeton.EDU>]

Norell puts Troodon in the Maniraptora. The AMNH crowd hasn't published
anything on this yet but he says as much in the _Audubon_ issue with
Sinosauropteryx, at least I think that's where I read it. Tyrannosaurs and
Ornithomimids lack some birdlike specializations to arms, legs and tail
that are shared by the troodontidae with dromaeosaurs, oviraptoridae,
and alvarezsaurs and so these two would have to have a lot of reversals.
        I'm not saying this is impossible or anything- I really have no
clue. I'm just starting to play with phylogeny. As I understand things,
the only two taxa that are guaranteed to be in Maniraptoriformes 100% are
the ornithomimids and modern birds. Anything else is hypothesis. So
"common ancestor of troodonts, dromaeosaurs, and oviraptoridae" is just
that strictly speaking, with a chance of some tyrannosaurs and
ornithomimids as well. 
        Didn't Cathy Forster's SVP presentation put troodontidae closer to
birds than dromaeosaurs? and does anyone know what in the heck is going on
now with the elmisaurs?
        
        -Nick L. 

        -not to make light of these hypotheses. by "hypothesis" I mean
something that isn't 100% guaranteed true, even if you could safely bet
your life on it. 

On Wed, 11 Jun 1997 NJPharris@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 97-06-10 12:41:32 EDT, longrich@phoenix.Princeton.EDU
> (Nick Longrich) writes:
> 
> > there is some indirect evidence that the common ancestor of
> >  troodonts, dromaeosaurs, and oviraptors did have honest to goodness
> >  avian-style feathers. 
> 
> Of course, this animal would also be the ancestor of tyrannosaurs,
> ornithomimosaurs, _Unenlagia_, _Archaeopteryx_, alvarezsaurs, true birds,
> probably therizinosaurs, and a whole host of beasties no one has ever heard
> of yet!
> 
> Nick Pharris
>