[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index][Subject Index][Author Index]
Re: FOUR, THREE, TWO, ONE . . . PTEROSAURS HAVE LIFT OFF!
Thanks Dave!
Couple of general comments regarding your concerns, and then more
specific replies indicated below:
With regards to clearance issues, bipedal launch actually makes
clearance more problematic, not less. Jim has already responded to
the specific kinematic issues, and did so just as well as I can, so
I'll let that stand. More generally, though, a biped launch would
require that the same clearance be generated with less muscle power.
This appears to have had substantial influence on planform evolution
in birds, with steeper launchers requiring reduced spans in order to
get the clearance for early onset of flapping strokes. It feels a bit
like the biped launch gives more clearance, because the animal is more
erect and all. But, it's the top of the leap that matters for
flapping clearance (be it a biped launch or quad launch), and more
power means more height.
It's also worth noting that running launch (among birds) is not really
a way of "building up" flapping power, either - it's mostly an
adaptation to water launching, and occurs in species with posteriorly
located hips, shortened hindlimbs, strong femora, high wing loadings,
and gracile forelimbs. The only one of these that matches pterosaurs
(some) is the high wing loading.
David Peters wrote:
While Mike makes a good case, I was still a little disappointed not
to see a step-by-step sequence illustrating this launch sequence in
a variety of pterosaurs. In the spirit of 'spirited discussion' I'd
like to challenge Mike a little, again.
Well, the paper went in some time ago, and I've been working on
illustrations since that time. I also don't want to scoop my Masters
student, who is doing a launch animation for her thesis. Still, your
point stands: an illustration would be very helpful for lots of folks.
At manus lift off, the metacarpus would, of necessity, still be
vertical, having just pushed off the earth like a airborne pole
vault. A vertical metacarpus means the wing finger was still in the
vertical plane, but no doubt beginning its rotation snap to the
flight position. The question is: how long does this take? After
passing the horizon, the wing finger would be on a collision course
with the earth--unless the proximal wing had rotated laterally
sufficiently to enable passage of the entire wing above the
substrate. The clearance shrinks with every passing nanosecond.
The positions aren't quite correct, but your basic question is
perfectly valid: is there enough time and clearance for a stroke
cycle? While we cannot calculate the amplitude and flapping frequency
exactly, rather robust estimates can be produced using known scaling
trends in flapping flight (that hold across multiple clades). Having
run these calculations, I find that clearance distance and time were
more than sufficient, even when I use very conservative numbers for
pterosaur flapping frequency.
The quad launch of Istiodatylus, with a much smaller
scapulocoracoid, tucked wing fingers several times longer and
relatively weak legs several times shorter presents quite another
scenario. Istiodactylus would have had to leap several times higher,
relative to its torso, than Quetz would have on ostensibly weaker
landing/launching gear.
It's launching gear isn't as weak as it seems: most of the power is in
the forelimbs. Now, that said, azhdarchs do generally have more
powerful launching systems (not so much because they have stronger
hindlimbs as much as they have more powerful forelimbs). This
explains the larger observed max size in azhdarchs, and it makes the
launch sequence faster. Istiodactylus ends up with a slower, longer
vault phase, but clearance still seems to be fine.
If, on the other hand, you make Istiodactylus launch with the
hindlimbs, then it does run into a power and clearance problem: now
those weak legs you mentioned are a serious handicap. Again, if
clearance and height are the issue, then more power helps.
As a rough comparison to give everyone an idea of how much this helps:
a passerine bird just barely clears on its first flight stroke when
launching. A vampire bat of roughly the same size, full of a blood
meal, quad launches up to three feet vertically.
There is some evidence (which I have not seen) for a bipedal launch
in the literature. Unfortunately I don't find it in Mike's reference
list.
A New Pterosaur Tracksite from the Jurassic Summerville Formation,
Near Ferron, Utah
Authors: Debra Mickelson1; Martin Lockley2; John Bishop3; James
Kirkland4
Ichnos, Volume 11, Numbers 1-2, Numbers 1-2/January-June 2004 , pp.
125-142(18)
I probably should have referenced it, but it didn't happen because I
haven't actually looked at the tracks myself, and (more importantly)
one of the authors indicated to me at SVP a while back that these are
probably landing tracks. It's also worth noting here that when
looking for trackway evidence of launch sequences, we should keep our
eyes open for evidence of leaping (probably more so than running).
Even if pterosaurs somehow managed to launch bipedally, it still
doesn't suggest a running launch - most birds launch by leaping, for
instance.
Cheers,
--Mike
Michael Habib, M.S.
PhD. Candidate
Center for Functional Anatomy and Evolution
Johns Hopkins School of Medicine
1830 E. Monument Street
Baltimore, MD 21205
(443) 280-0181
habib@jhmi.edu
- Follow-Ups:
- Re: FOUR, THREE, TWO, ONE . . . PTEROSAURS HAVE LIFT OFF!
- From: David Peters <davidpeters@att.net>
- Re: FOUR, THREE, TWO, ONE . . . PTEROSAURS HAVE LIFT OFF!
- From: jrc <jrccea@bellsouth.net>
- Re: FOUR, THREE, TWO, ONE . . . PTEROSAURS HAVE LIFT OFF!
- From: jrc <jrccea@bellsouth.net>
- Re: FOUR, THREE, TWO, ONE . . . PTEROSAURS HAVE LIFT OFF!
- From: jrc <jrccea@bellsouth.net>
- Prev by Date:
Re: FOUR, THREE, TWO, ONE . . . PTEROSAURS HAVE LIFT OFF!
- Next by Date:
Re: FOUR, THREE, TWO, ONE . . . PTEROSAURS HAVE LIFT OFF!
- Previous by thread:
Re: FOUR, THREE, TWO, ONE . . . PTEROSAURS HAVE LIFT OFF!
- Next by thread:
Re: FOUR, THREE, TWO, ONE . . . PTEROSAURS HAVE LIFT OFF!
- Indexes: