Re: [dinosaur] Why birds are living dinosaurs

[Thomas Richard Holtz <tholtz@umd.edu>]

Ronald Orenstein writes:Â

> I take your point, but (and perhaps it's just me) I haven't seen much use of what I would imagine are equivalent terms ('non-mammalian synapsid', for example, or for that matter 'non-tetrapod sarcopterygian').

Such phrases do most definitely show up in the literature. It is only that (as in all things) dinosaurs are far more conspicuously present with the public. And indeed this list...

On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 4:26 PM Ronald Orenstein <ron.orenstein@rogers.com> wrote:

I take your point, but (and perhaps it's just me) I haven't seen much use of what I would imagine are equivalent terms ('non-mammalian synapsid', for example, or for that matter 'non-tetrapod sarcopterygian').

Ronald Orenstein
1825 Shady Creek Court
Mississauga, ON L5L 3W2
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On Monday, April 12, 2021, 04:06:30 p.m. EDT, Thomas Richard Holtz <tholtz@umd.edu> wrote:

Dawid Marzurek writes:

I see two problems here (excluding the general confusion of lay persons):

1) paraphylethic groups are actually useful. The presence of a "non-avian dinosaur" term is an evidence;

2) professionals refer to K-Pg event as an extinction of dinosaurs.

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Sloppy thinkingÂand dialog, even on the part of professionals, doesn't make it right or reasonable.

Indeed, as decades of work shows, it leads to incorrect conclusions. Hence people who are convinced that "reptiles" have three-chambered hearts and lack parental care, and then assume crocodiles and dinosaurs were the same. Or that "fish" all have the same metabolism or life history strategy. And just because some professional biologists say these things, too (which they do!!) doesn't mean that is okay.

The use of "non-avian dinosaur" is useful in BEING ponderous and unwieldy: it shows the artificiality of the concept.

On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 3:49 PM dawidmazurek@wp.pl <dawidmazurek@wp.pl> wrote:

I see two problems here (excluding the general confusion of lay persons):

1) paraphylethic groups are actually useful. The presence of a "non-avian dinosaur" term is an evidence;

2) professionals refer to K-Pg event as an extinction of dinosaurs.

--

Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
Email:Âtholtz@umd.eduÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ Phone: 301-405-4084
Principal Lecturer, Vertebrate Paleontology

Office: Geology 4106, 8000 Regents Dr., College Park MD 20742

Dept. of Geology, University of Maryland
http://www.geol.umd.edu/~tholtz/

Phone: 301-405-6965
Fax: 301-314-9661ÂÂÂÂÂÂ ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ

Faculty Director, Science & Global Change Program, College Park Scholars

Office: Centreville 1216, 4243 Valley Dr., College Park MD 20742
http://www.geol.umd.edu/sgc
Fax: 301-314-9843

Mailing Address:ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ Department of Geology
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ Building 237, Room 1117

ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ 8000 Regents Drive
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ University of Maryland
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ College Park, MD 20742-4211 USA

--

Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
Email:Âtholtz@umd.eduÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ Phone: 301-405-4084
Principal Lecturer, Vertebrate Paleontology

Office: Geology 4106, 8000 Regents Dr., College Park MD 20742

Dept. of Geology, University of Maryland
http://www.geol.umd.edu/~tholtz/

Phone: 301-405-6965
Fax: 301-314-9661ÂÂÂÂÂÂ ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ

Faculty Director, Science & Global Change Program, College Park Scholars

Office: Centreville 1216, 4243 Valley Dr., College Park MD 20742
http://www.geol.umd.edu/sgc
Fax: 301-314-9843

Mailing Address:ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ Department of Geology
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ Building 237, Room 1117

ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ 8000 Regents Drive
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ University of Maryland
ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ College Park, MD 20742-4211 USA