Re: The 'gypsy' dinosaur (was Re: new titanosaur: Atsinganosaurus velauciensis)

[Jocelyn Falconnet <j.falconnet@gmail.com>]

For those who have the paper: correct me if I am wrong, but this seems 
to be another case of the 
"all-the-material-from-this-bed-and/or-locality-is-referred-to-the-same-taxon-without-proper-justification" 
disease... The most relevant fact being here that the holotype consists 
of four articulated posterior dorsal vertebrae and, save a single 
isolated dorsal vertebrae, there is no overlapping with the referred 
material (i.e., isolated teeth, cervical, sacral, and caudal vertebrae, 
and a few isolated appendicular elements).

Reminds me a recent paper dealing with the identity of numerous isolated 
theropod appendicular elements...

Let's simplify; here is the reasoning behind such papers:
"Let A and B, such as A and B can not be compared. Now A and B resemble 
to C. Hence, A = B."

I am still trying to undertand how such papers could have been accepted, 
given they are denying the elementary principles of taxonomy. And good 
sense.
...
Maybe a Brain Spawn attack ? ><

PS: If anyone wants to check my sayings, I have the actual paper. Just ask.

Tim Williams a écrit :
> The message was truncated when it arrived in my mailbox, but here are the 
> details...
>
>
> Garcia, G., Amico, S., Fournier, F., Thouand, E., and Valentin, X. (2010) A new 
> titanosaur genus (Dinosauria, Sauropoda) from the Late Cretaceous of southern France 
> and its paleobiogeographic implications.  Bull. Soc. géol. Fr. 181: 269-277.
>
>
> Abstract. "A new titanosaur, _Atsinganosaurus velauciensis_, gen. and sp. nov. is 
> described from well-preserved remains from the new Upper Cretaceous locality of Velaux-La 
> Bastide Neuve (Aix-en-Provence Basin, France).  This taxon is mainly diagnosed by a 
> combination of characters, which differentiates it without ambiguity from other European 
> Late Cretaceous taxa (_Lirainosaurus_, _Ampelosaurus_ and _Magyarosaurus_).  
> _Atsinganosaurus_ confirms the presence in western Europe during the latest Cretaceous of 
> a third titanosaurian species, slender and less derived which allows us to better 
> understand the evolutionary and paleobiogeographical history of this group during the 
> Cretaceous."
>
>
> The genus name derives from the Byzantine Greek word for "gypsy", 'atsinganos' (which 
> still survives in many languages in one form or another, e.g. "tsigani").  When the 
> Byzantines came up with the word, it may not have been at all complimentary - the word 'atsinganos' 
> is supposed to mean 'untouchable' or 'heathen'.  The gypsies (Roma) were regarded as foreign 
> heretics by the medieval Byzantines.  Then again, the Byzantines were a tendentious and 
> narrow-minded bunch, always banging on about heretics and heathens.  Anyway...
>
>
> The specific name is in honor of the French city of Velaux (Latin Velaucio) 
> from where the material was collected.  During the Late Cretaceous, it was part 
> of a large Iberian-Armorican island (up to three times the size of modern 
> Madagascar).
>
>  
> In any case, the name _Atsinganosaurus_ ("gypsy reptile") is "in reference to the existence of Late Cretaceous migrations between western and eastern Europe revealed by these remains."  Although there is no phylogenetic analysis, the authors su
> osaurus_ might be closely related to _Malawisaurus_; the two are quite similar 
> in many respects.  If so, _Atsinganosaurus_ documents the survival of basal 
> lithostrotians late into the Cretaceous (late Campanian), which the authors 
> suggest might have something to do with its island habitat.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Tim
>