RE: Combined answer: smallest ANCIENT non-bird dinosaur - was what I was asking

[Tim Williams <twilliams_alpha@hotmail.com>]

Scott Hartman wrote:


>> For the longest time both _Ichthyornis_ and
>> _Hesperornis_ were allied with grebes and loons - although Marsh had 
> originally separated them from the crown-group (as Odontornithes).
> 
> Indeed, almost as if later workers made poor extrapolations becaues 
> they assumed that Ichthyornis and Hesperornis were "birds"...


Marsh wasn't so fooled.   He recognized _Ichthyornis_, _Hesperornis_ and 
_Archaeopteryx_ as birds, and put them outside the crown-group.


As a general statement, I think you're overstating just how many unjustified 
suppositions are made about a fossil taxon simply because it's labelled a 
"bird".  We know that _Archaeopteryx_ (in particular) has become the subject of 
a "steaming pile of anti-scientific tripe"; but such tripe will always emerge 
when someone has an agenda to push.  Any tweaking of nomenclature (such as 
restricting the name Aves to the crown-group) will not make a jot of 
difference.  


Neil Taylor wrote:


> I do however think Pluto should be re-classified as it always was: as
> a cartoon character. 
> unfortunately that name was pre-occupied by a species of classical deity...


I apologize in advance, because this is probably OT, but the original 
derivation of Pluto (to the Romans) and Ploutus (to the Greeks, better known as 
Hades) was 'ploutos' (Gk =wealth), and alludes to the mineral riches that lay 
deep within the earth.  Classical writers pictured Pluto/Hades almost literally 
sitting on a pile of gems and valuable metals.  This older meaning ('wealth') 
is preserved in the word 'plutocrat', whereas 'plutonic' references the 
underworld deity Pluto.


> (at least it wasn't a beetle!)


Not a beetle, no.  But _Pluto_ is a named genus of wasp.  :-)


Cheers

Tim
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