Re: How would Tyrannosaurus approach a Triceratops?

[don ohmes <d_ohmes@yahoo.com>]

I still think trex was most likely, and primarily, an
ambush predator. Pebbly skin and splotches or stripes
to break up the outline would render them very hard to
see when still. Even wild turkeys will come close if
you hold still enough, especially on windy/rainy days.
The key is to stare at something nearby so your eyes
don't move, and let them walk into your field of
vision. (Question-- I know of birds that find
resources by smell (turkey vulture) but none that
avoid predation using olfaction. Anyone have an
example? Or any non-mammal?)

So the usual angle of attack may have been reaching
down, or over, to grab the spine...

As to sauropod/rex interaction: 
1. Sauropod neck bones don't preserve well, and may
also have been fragile and therefore vulnerable.
2. RE: lack of long bones w/ toothmarks. Why gnaw
dense and heavy bones when you have multiple tons of
soft body parts?
3. Had trex been primarily a scavenger, or just had
the need to gnaw, there would be lots of tooth-marked
bones, it seems to me. After all, the scavenger
hypothesis is coupled w/ arrival of trex at the
average carcass after decomposition is well under way.
Also pre-supposes a constant and adequate death
rate...

(Another couple of questions-- 1. Am I right in
thinking that trex jaws were about the same distance
from the ground as the necks of the largest sauropods?
2. Has anyone published an analysis of predation vs
carrion strategies relative to energetics of trex
locomotion? Another big hole in the scavenger
hypothesis, IMO.)

Don 

--- Mike Lima <taradosgon@yahoo.com> wrote:

> The issue about the lion comparison is that lions
> are
> low to the ground, and also they can hide amongst
> grass and get really close to their prey. When
> hunting
> herd animals, even African Buffalo, when a lion
> charges from the grass it will startle them and they
> will all start running with the lion chasing and
> biting from behind. While a Rhinoceros is more prone
> to charge. Now it seems like Tyrannosaurus would
> have
> to cross a greater distance than a lion to catch its
> prey, and if Triceratops had the temperment of a
> rhinoceros, hunting a Triceratops seems like a good
> way for a Tyrannosaurus to be seriosly injured or
> killed. While if they behaved more like modern
> bovids
> a Tyrannosaurus would have a quick oppurtunity to
> kill
> a Triceratops as they attempt to flee. 
> 
> --- Neal Romanek <nromanek@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> > Is there any actual hard evidence for Triceratops
> > being a herd animal 
> > (tracks, massive bone deposits)? Or is it just
> taken
> > as a reasonable 
> > assumption? Also do we know how ceratopsian frills
> &
> > horns grew over 
> > the animal's lifespan?
> > 
> > But if I was a T.Rex...and I am...
> > 
> > ...Stalk the triceratops herd at distance--for
> days
> > at a time if need 
> > be. Use the superior eyesight and elevation of the
> > head to stay safe 
> > yet keep close track of how the herd is moving.
> And
> > then when a 
> > triceratops calf or arthritic old bull gets
> > separated, sprint in on 
> > those long long legs and get in a single T.Rex
> size
> > bite--then flee, if 
> > necessary.
> > 
> > The herd must move on eventually. The calf is dead
> > or will bleed to 
> > death--or in the worst-case scenario rejoins the
> > herd crippled and 
> > vulnerable to a follow-up. Chase off any pesky
> > scavengers and chow 
> > down. Nap. Repeat.
> > 
> > Maybe T/ Rexes travelled in mated pairs. A single
> > set of mated pairs 
> > per triceratops herd. Two Trexes could manage a
> > pretty big herd I would 
> > think.
> > 
> > The obvious mammalian model here is lion prides
> > tracking and travelling 
> > with wildebeest herds in seasons. The lions do all
> > they can to avoid a 
> > head-on confrontation.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Aug 17, 2005, at 9:41 AM, Eric Allen wrote:
> > 
> > > Couldn't the damage also be interpreted as the
> > alleged
> > > attack coming from the side and the during one
> > point
> > > biting at the head?  Damage to the horn and
> frill
> > > doesn't necessairly mean a frontal assault.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Tim Donovan <uwrk2@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> --- "Richard W. Travsky" <rtravsky@uwyo.edu>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On those remains that are known, do the horns
> > show
> > >>> any
> > >>> sign of damage, impact stress, whatever?
> > >>
> > >>  Remember Happ's recent study? The specimen-SUP
> > 9713
> > >> IIRC-displays a partly  broken off horn with a
> > >> healed
> > >> puncture wound, and a frill with wounds which
> > match
> > >> the spacing of T. rex teeth. That suggests
> > >> Triceratops
> > >> faced its opponent or charged it.
> > >
> > >
> > >           
> > >
> >
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> 
> 
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