define what constitutes being a fossil dealer? If I am able to buy
small
brachiopod fossils at a paleontological museum, does that not make them
fossil dealers? Or is there some cut-off point between acceptable
fossil
sales and non-acceptable sales??
tell me you know for a fact where his money comes from? I doubt that
you can, and
neither can I. I think Kirby Sieber has given up the vast majority of
his
commercial fossil dealings, but I think Bob would know better than I.
As well, I am not aware of Kirby Sieber's education, or lack of it.
Do you
know what he does or doesn't have a degree in?
So what you are saying is that ONLY people who have actually gone to
school
(what's enough? Masters? PhD? BSc??) are "allowed" to call themselves
paleontologists? I know a lot of people around the world who have no
formal
education in paleontology, yet they know a lot more about their areas
of
expertise than some "educated" people I know of..... and what about
Jack Horner? He is widely accepted as a paleontologist, but I quote
(taken from DML archives Feb 25/2001
"Jack Horner indeed has no formal degree, although he had attended the
University of Montana in the 60s and 70s, studying geology and
zoology. His
honorary doctorate in science from U. of Montana came the same year
(1986) as
he was awarded a MacArthur (Genius) Fellowship." so, Dr. Horner has
no real degree in paleontology, yet he is one of the most recognisable
names in paleontology in the US. Why? because of the fossil
materials he found......NOT because of his education (or lack of it).
But, obviously, he is not a paleontologist...according to your
definition.
so what constitutes a "real" museum, Dan? Must you go out and collect
every
specimen yourself? if that's the case, a lot of the so called "real"
museums in the world are not "real" museums then, because they have
bought
fossils over the course of their lives. Must the money come from
taxpayer's
dollars, versus private money? Must you have a degree in
paleontology to
set up a paleontological museum and try to educate people? Are there
horrific mistakes that Kirby has made in his museum? Has he
amalgamated
different Jurassic dinosaurs by mistake and made some kind of
Frankensaurus? Has he provided false or
inaccurate info to go with his displays?
Do you consider Sternberg a paleontologist? I have heard him called
that
more often than not, yet I can't see where he ever had a degree in
paleontology. Strange how he is credited with so much that, if he did
it
today (as some do) he would be a villain instead of a hero. Remember,
back
then, I don't think there were a lot of private collectors buying
specimens,
and museums hired guys like Sternberg to go out and get their
dinosaurs for
them. Which begs the question...if you don't have a degree,should you
then
even be ALLOWED to collect a fossil, Dan? It seems to me I have heard
you
(and some others) on this list talking about non-professionals and how
they
shouldn't be allowed to even collect important vertebrate specimens.
Your bone of contention has been, and always will be, the selling of
fossils. You hint at that again in your last post.....
I know a lot of people who have financed themselves through university
selling a LOT worse things than fossils.
Strange how I know geology students who make their way through
university
financially by selling minerals, entomology students by selling stick
bugs,
and archaeology students by selling coins....none of which are ever
stigmatized the way paleontology students are for selling
fossils.....and least by some.
I really don't know why you have such a hatred for commercial dealers,
Dan. I know plenty of PhD's who truly respect and appreciate the
valuable contributions made by some commercial fossil dealers, and
their scientific work is enhanced by the help they get from these
individuals. It's too bad there's no room in your world for a little
bit of respect and tolerance.
Michael
----- Original Message ----- From: <Danvarner@aol.com>
To: <dinosaur@usc.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Stegosaurus preparation photos
In a message dated 4/25/2005 5:31:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dmschmidt@sprint.ca writes:
<< so what if he is, Dan? did you even go to his site? I doubt
it...if
you
did, you would see that it is a website promoting the museum. None
of
the
items on the site are for sale, so what's your issue? >>
Yes, of course I went to the site. My issue is: why not admit openly
that
you
are a fossil dealer? I have done a lot of paleontological collecting
and
study, but I would never dream of calling myself a paleontologist.
The
young
(and not so young) folks working on MS and PhD degrees who are
busting
their
bankrolls and behinds without the benefit of selling fossils on the
side
are the
ones who deserve to be called paleontologists...in my opinion. I'm
concerned
about what constitutes a real scientist and a real museum. I see that
distinction being blurred more and more lately. And in Simon's post.
Obviously, I
hit a nerve. DV