Re: How are columbiformes (doves and pigeons) related to psittaciformes?

[Christopher Taylor <ck.taylor@auckland.ac.nz>]

    Interestingly enough, I did a project for an MSc paper a few years back,
where I attempted to construct a phylogeny of Aves using 12S and 16S rDNA to
test the monophyly or otherwise of Pelecaniformes. The final tree was almost
totally unresolved, but one of the very few well-supported clades which did
appear was Psittacidae + Coliidae. Unfortunately, it wasn't the main focus
of my project, so I didn't look at it further. (I also found strong support
for Passeriformes basal to Neoaves - you have been warned.)
    Mayr and Clarke (2003) also fail to find Columbiformes (including
Pteroclidae) + Charadriiformes, which appears to be almost taken for granted
in a number of papers. I just looked at another paper on charadriiform
phylogeny (Ericson, Envall et al. 2003. BMC Evolutionary Biology 3 (16):
1-14) which found the same result with a molecular dataset, but which also
had a much smaller taxa sample.
    I think Mayr and Clarke should be taken with a very large grain of salt
- and the final comments in it would suggest that they themselves would
agree with me. Most notably, even the least resolved tree in it has
Cathartidae as the sister group to Falconiformes + Strigiformes, which is
significantly at odds with molecular evidence and, I think, most other
morphological analyses.

    Cheers,

        Christopher Taylor

On 10/5/04 6:34 pm, "Mickey Mortimer" <Mickey_Mortimer111@msn.com> wrote:

> Dora Smith wrote-
> 
>> I have come across several tables of bird phylogeny that state that
>> psittaciformes (parrots) and columbiformes (doves and pigeons) are closely
>> related - and placed in various diverse locations in the phylogenetic
>> scheme.
> 
> Not believed to be true anymore.  Mayr and Clarke (2003) found
> psittaciformes to be closest to coliids, then coraciids.  Columbids were
> most closely related to pteroclids.  Mayr (2002) noted similarities between
> basal parrots (pseudasturids) and strigiformes.  Mayr et al. (2003) found
> psittaciformes to be closely related to a Coliidae + Piciformes clade.
> Columbiformes were not included in their analysis.  Livezey and Zusi (2001)
> found psittaciformes to be closest to some coraciiformes, while columbids
> were next to pteroclids.
> 
>> Explanations of this idea are so vague they do not even tell me if the
>> evidence is genetic or morphological.
>> 
>> What can anyone tell me about what reason there is to believe
> psittaciformes
>> and columbiformes are closely related, and can anyone suggest some good
>> sources on that subject.
> 
> Mayr (2002) wrote- "Whereas some authors considered a close relationship
> between Psittaciformes and either Cuculiformes (e.g. Gadow, 1893) or
> Columbiformes (pigeons and doves) (e.g. Mayr & Amadon, 1951; Feduccia,
> 1996), more recent studies resulted in sister
> group relationship between the Psittaciformes and a cluster of several
> recent taxa (e.g. Sibley & Ahlquist,1990; Livezey & Zusi, 2001 ­ the former
> reference also gives a survey on the history of the classification of
> psittaciform birds).
> The Pseudasturidae are distinguished from other psittaciform birds in the
> morphology of several skeletal elements and it may be assumed that the
> Eocene taxon lacks many of the highly derived features, which obscure the
> relationships of extant Psittaciformes.  Almost certainly, for example, the
> derived similarities between the humerus of extant parrots and pigeons (e.g.
> Stegmann, 1964) are due to convergence, as both the Pseudasturidae and the
> Eocene psittaciform birds described by Mayr & Daniels (1998) exhibit a
> different, presumably more primitive, humeral morphology.
> Of course, the remotely parrot-like beak of the toothbilled pigeon,
> Didunculus strigirostris, also does not support a close relationship between
> Psittaciformes and Columbiformes as assumed by Feduccia (1980), because
> other pigeons as well as the Pseudasturidae and other basal psittaciform
> birds (see Mayr & Daniels, 1998) lack a parrot-like beak."
> 
> Mickey Mortimer
>