Fw: Ceratopsian Frills

["Cliff Green" <dinonaut@emerytelcom.net>]

 Dear Mark and list,

     It's funny you should mention Ceratopsians using thier beaks as
weapons.
     I first mentioned this hypothesis several years ago, when I was doing
 research on horned dinosaurs for a Discovery channel commission, and my
1/35th scale line. I didn't receive alot of feedback. I am probably not the
first person to come up with this idea in the hundred twenty plus years of
ceratopsian study, but I didn't get the idea from someone else.
    The jaw muscles on horned dinosaurs must have been emmense. Then take
into account that the premax is still pointy, even in fossil form.Now
 imagine how crisp the edge of the keratin sheath on that premaxilla must
 have been. A six ton torosaur may have been able to nip small trees down. I
can just visualize what it could do to the leg or exposed underbelly of an
attacking tyrannosaur. Lawn shears through wet cardboard.

 Lost in the Lance Cliff

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Hallett" <marksabercat@yahoo.com>
> To: <rtravsky@uwyo.edu>
> Cc: <dinosaur@usc.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 9:12 PM
> Subject: RE: Ceratopsian Frills
>
>
>
> --- "Richard W. Travsky" <rtravsky@uwyo.edu> wrote:
> > On Sun, 25 Apr 2004, Andrew A. Farke wrote:
> > > > From: owner-dinosaur@usc.edu
> > [mailto:owner-dinosaur@usc.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > > Richard W. Travsky
> >
> > Thin and "porous". That frill practically goes back
> > to its butt. It looks
> > like it wouldn't be strong enough to hold up as a
> > barrier either.
>
> I think that a relatively thin and porus shield (I
> prefer this term to "frill", since I think "shield"
> comes closer to what I consider to have been its
> intraspecific combat, anti-predator qualities) would
> have still been effective against tyrannosaurid
> predation. A downward or forwardly directed
> tyrannosaurid bite would inflict tremendous damage on
> a fleshy, especially a vertical, structure like the
> neck, trunk or spinal column, where the structure
> would be perpendicular to the angle of the occluding
> teeth; it would be less effective when brought to bear
> against a wide, hard curving surface (in the case of
> an adult Torosaurus)like the shield, that exceeded its
> gape and may have largely deflected the bite. The
> results would probably be similar to the T. rex attack
> on the Land Rover's sunroof in JP1: a frustrating
> inability to get its jaws around something. This at
> least could have bought some time to turn and stage a
> counterattack with the beak. I'm not implying that
> ceratopsian shields were only for defense, but I think
> Richard's horned toad hypothesis has merit.
>
> --Mark Hallett
>
>
>
>
>
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