Re: birds DID NOT evolve from therapods

["Steve Brusatte" <dinoland@lycos.com>]

On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 07:40:01  
 Scott Hartman wrote:
>     This is what's known as an "ad hominem" attack, meaning you are 
>attacking the people who advocate an idea, not the idea itself.  This is 
>widely considered by experts (self styled and otherwise) to be one of the 
>fastest ways to lose credibility in a scientific debate.  Interestingly, the 
>"world-respected" scientist John Ruben (however you quantify THAT) submitted 
>an abstract this year on the politics of dinosaur paleontology.  I'll let 
>your draw your own conclusions. (actually, Ruben's paper is probably a 
>reflection of his frusturation with collegues who disagree with him.  
>However, when "everyone is lost but you" in science, the burden of proof is 
>on the minority, and like it or not, the "birds are not dinosaurs" group has 
>failed to make an overwhelming case, no matter how badly they wish it to be 
>true).

.....

>     Actually, I agree, which is why I presented a plausible aerodynamic 
>model for a ground up origin of aerodynamic surfaces.  And this year a 
>plausible (and charismatic!) hypothesis was put forward on the transition 
>from winged non-flyers to flyers from the ground up.
>    The rest of your post was a bunch of personal attacks on people you 
>disagree with, so I won't respond to them.  I, and I suspect the rest of the 
>list, would welcome you to actually present evidence that would disprove the 
>dinosaur-bird link.  But that requires data, not name calling.  Give it a 
>shot.  The worst that could happen is you may gain a better understanding of 
>the issues, and at best, you might be the Gallileo of paleontology.

Herein lies a major issue.  While our primeval f(r)iend goes off on a 
slanderous rampage against our "self-appointed" listmember experts, HP Hartman 
actually makes a minor agreement with PD.  However, Mr. Hartman used a little 
something that we call science, a unifying principle that unites us serious 
listmembers.  

Pseudo-science is unacceptable.  Sure, we all like to speculate, but 
speculation cannot prove anything right or wrong.  Fueled opinions cannot prove 
anything right or wrong.  I have no problem with people attempting to question 
the dinosaur-bird link using science (i.e., something testable, peer-reviewed, 
etc.). But, what irks me is people who use faith or opinions to attack 
viewpoints.  This is akin to religion (which isn't bad at all, but shouldn't be 
mixed with science, because the two are not mutually exclusive).  This is why 
we don't allow cre*tionist and cryptozoology postings on this list.  

Steve

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Steve Brusatte-DINO LAND PALEONTOLOGY
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