'bird' definitions

[Bill Adlam <sagitta_elegans@yahoo.com>]

George wrote:

> << Who cares whether the groups are extant or not?  There are a
great many
>  known fossil taxa (_Triceratops_, _Gastonia_, _Dicraeosaurus_,
etc.) that
>  are "manifestly not birds", yet fall inside your definition of
birds.>>
>... You might
> find it interesting and insightful to think of them as large, very
primitive,
> heavy-bodied, quadrupedal birds.

Primitive?  If Triceratops is descended from a small volant reptile,
it is a lot more derived than Archaeopteryx, or even modern birds.

I think I'll avoid the question of whether any human beings I know are
manifestly not bats.

Bill
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