Re: We're not in Kansas anymore

[carlo godel <regiaero@gj.net>]

we must also remember that the great majority is not above burning a few
heretics to bring the others into line.
Carlo

Joshua Smith wrote:

> znb35@TTACS.TTU.EDU wrote:
> > From owner-dinosaur@usc.edu  Thu Aug 19 09:58:51 1999
> >
> > ...so once again science wishes to turn a blind eye to creationist
> > propaganda? I understand people not wanting the lsit clooged with the
> > usual creationist ve scientist arguments that we've all heard ad nauseum.
> > However, this is a verry different issue. If we as scientists continue to
> > ignore the transgressions of creationist fanatics into the realms of
> > policy, then we have no right to complain when we lose the ability to
> > teach evolution and are forced to use psuedo-scientific texts in the
> > classroom. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and we all know creationists
> > squeak with the best of them. Closing our eyes and concluding that reason
> > will win out in the end is a nice fantasy, but it's not the world we live
> > in. Ignore the problem, and it won't go away: next week/month the problem
> > may come to your state. I suggest we all start squeaking loud and clear;
> > otherwise don't start crying when your schoolboard administrator announces
> > you/your children will now be using "The Panda's Thumb" text to explore
> > "alternatives to evolution- after all, it's just a theory".
> >       Alan Coulson
> >
>
>         I have to agree pretty strongly with Alan.  This is not a problem
> that is going to go away.  Recent surveys have proclaimed that something
> like 58-62% of the American public think the planet is less than 10,000
> years old, and many of these people are teaching the next generation
> this (indeed, the percentage of those polled that were high school
> teachers was large).  I have been keeping a pretty close eye on these
> developments and I don't mind telling you that I am concerned--and it is
> in large part because of the sort of attitude that Alan is talking about.
> We (the paleo community--please bear with the "we" and "they" terminology
> here, they are gross generalizations, but take up much less space) tend to
> sit around in our posh little offices, playing with our little bones,
> thinking that we are doing front-line research that is relevent to
> everyones lives, and ignoring such "threats" as nothing more than a
> bunch of fruitcakes with off the wall ideas that anyone with any rational
> basis of thought will obviously see right though and laugh at.  However,
> the people making these "threats" are generally much more in the public
> forum than "we" are, are often much better public speakers, and CARE very
> much about making sure the public is swayed to the way that "they" see
> the world.  This is a larger issue than the Creation/Evolution Debate,
> which is little more than a symptom of a view of parts of the public towards
> science and "reason" as a whole.  And where "we" offer a worldview that
> puts people in as just an interesting byproduct of evolution (that might not
> be there if we "rewound the tape of life") and not all that important in
> the general scheme of things (let's face it, we all think dinosaurs are
> nifty, but vertebrates in general are pretty unimportant parts of an
> ecosystem, relatively speaking), "they" offer a humancentered world view,
> with us as the logical apex of the life pyramid.  And where "we" offer a
> questioning or even "bleak" view of an afterlife (i.e, there might not BE
> one), "they" offer an eternity of bliss to a chosen group.  AND often
> strengthen the argument by offering an eternity of pain to anyone not
> in that group. Gee, I cannot imagine why they attract people to their side.
> What do we really have to offer to a single mom who works 700 hours a week,
> has a marginal at best education, has been dragged to church since
> she was a todler, and is tired and afraid of pretty
> much everything all the time? Not to mention how we deal with mass
> suffering verses how they do.  This earthquake in Turkey is a great
> example.  How many people really want to hear that those ca.3800 people
> died simply because they happened to live at the wrong place at the wrong
> time and that there is no other reason for their suffering beyond that?
> I can understand the reluctance of the list to entertain Cretationist
> viewpoints in a forum that is supposed to be discussing science, but I
> think rather strongly that this is an issue that science, and
> particularly people who deal with geologic time on a daily basis, should
> not be ignoring or downplaying the importance of.  And it is a much
> larger view than just Cretationism expounded upon by far more than just
> the Creationsts.  In fact, I think that the privalege of us being allowed
> to spend society's resources on such important questions as how a 75
> million year dead dinosaur walked imparts upon us a rather large
> responsibility to give something back.
>
>
>
> --
> __________________________
> Josh Smith
> University of Pennsylvania
> Department of Earth and Environmental Science
> 471 Hayden Hall
> 240 South 33rd Street
> Philadelphia, PA  19104-6316
> (215) 898-5630 (Office)
> (215) 898-0964 (FAX)
> smithjb@sas.upenn.edu