Re: THE MIDDLE OF SAUROPOD FACES

["Berislav Krzic" <veselinka.stanisavac@siol.net>]

Peter Buchholz
Tetanurae@aol.com
wrote:

<Indeed, Nowinski did describe it as having short nasals like those seen in
dipolodocids, but he also took quite a bit of artistic license when
illustrating most of the face.  Instead of looking at the drawings, take a
look at the plates.>
True. It is always good to look at the photos of actual fossil.
Unfortunately, they are not at hand at present. Nevertheless, you shouldn't
discard the fact that Nowinski had the actual fossil in his hands, being
able to notice even more detail.




<<Is there any material proof for the brachiosaur-like nostril, except a
"missing, ghost part"?>>

<Well, the nasals seem to exit the rear of the head at an up-turned angle
from
the long axis of the skull.  Additionally, there seems to be that premax-max
shelf on the snout seen in camarasaurs and brachiosaurs.>

Diplodocus nasals also exit the rear of the head at an up-turned angle from
the long axis of the skull, as well as in many other sauropods.

<<If I am correct, isn't the same part of the skull missing from
Dicraeosaurus
and
Quaesitosaurus, too?>>

<The skull of Quaesitosaurus is missing most of the middle section, but the
snout does seem to have a shelf like that seen in Nemegtosaurus,
Brachiosaurus
and Camarasaurus.>

It is not just the shelf - the tip of the snout is broad dorsally -
reminiscent somewhat of the duck-bill. If I am not wrong the same broad
snout tip is present in Dicraeosaurus. As far as I am concerned, the shelf
is the strongest argument in this case, but there is no trace of the front
part of the nasals arch at the premax-max shelf.

<Jeff Wilson has shown evidence that Quaesitosaurus has been really crushed,
and it  probably belongs in the same species: Nemegtosaurus mongoliensis.
They are both very similar to Martinez' skull which also, seems to have a
premax-max shelf.>

Quaesitosaurus has always looked to me like another specimen of
Nemegtosaurus.

<As for Dicraeosaurus......  It is indeed missing most of the central
portion
of the face, but its snout is much more like the ones in Diplodocus and
Apatasaurus, as well as the Barosaurus africanus material: very rounded and
without a shelf>

However, there is a lot of resemblance with Nemegtosaurus in the dorsal and
lateral view.
Anyway, I can't argue much without actual fossils in my hands - please,
consider this just as my impression.

By the way, Greg Paul has been attributing the Namegtosaurus skull to
Opisthocoelicaudia body for a long time.


Berislav Krzic
illustrissimus@usa.net
ILLUSTRISSIMUS PRODUCTION
http://illustrissimus.virtualave.net/