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Re: Fwd: Senter 2006, Confuciusornis, and humeral mobility



On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 10:50 PM, evelyn sobielski <koreke77@yahoo.de> wrote:

>> I would very much like it if someone reanalyzes hindlimb mobility (if it has 
>> not been done). Possibly the infamous "squirrel pose" has more merit than 
>> nowadays assumed. _Confuciusornis_ mainly arboricolous, with a basically 
>> parabola-shaped down-and-up flight path, driven mainly by gravity and 
>> supplemented (on the upward swing) with wingbeats, would presently be the 
>> hypothesis I favor. But it's very very tentative.<<

Ugh, how does this keep coming up?

I'm not trying to knock the rest of your ecomorph hypothesis, but the
squirrel pose did not happen.  The cross-section of the fermoral head
of Microraptor was demonstrated clearly in Hwang et al.'s 2002
Novitates paper; Microraptor has the normal theropod femoral head and
there is _no way_ to put it into a squirrel position in life (well,
not more than once anyways).

It would certainly be interesting to get a high rez scan of the pelvis
of Confuciusornis (or Microraptor) and I encourage all who have the
means to do so, but invoking the squirrel pose to try and hypothesize
the lifestyle or flight ability in either is the height of special
pleading.

And finally, although I know you meant well, bad science (as in the KU
Microraptor "study" ) should not be lauded as "marketable".


-Scott

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 10:50 PM, evelyn sobielski <koreke77@yahoo.de> wrote:
>
>> >>> The paper makes two assumptions that I
>> question:
>> >>>
>> >>> 1) the glenoid and scapula  of extinct
>> taxa must have the same configuration as in volant
>> neornithines in order for the humerus to be raised above the
>> dorsum.
>> >>>
>> >>> 2) the humerus must be raised to 90 degrees
>> above horizontal during the recovery stroke in order for
>> flapping flight to be effective.
>> >>>
>> >>> I don't see why 1 must be true. There must
>> have been transitional phases leading from the anteroventral
>> glenoid of lower theropods to the lateral one of birds, and
>> very subtle changes, maybe even  just longer ligaments,
>> could effect greater mobility in the humerus.
>> >>>
>> >>> But I'm especially skeptical of assumption 2,
>> not qualitatively but quantitatively. Consider the paper by
>> Sokoloff et al. (The function of the supracoracoideus muscle
>> during takeoff in the European Starling (Sturnus vulgaris).
>> New Perspectives on the origin and early evolution of birds,
>> Gauthier, 1999.)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> In their experiments they surgically destroyed
>> the supracoracoideus muscles of test subject starlings, then
>> filmed them taking off and flying. The starlings' normal
>> range of humeral motion during the recovery stroke was 90
>> degrees above horizontal. After surgery, this range was
>> reduced to just 50 degrees above dorsal. Yet the birds could
>> still take off perfectly well from the ground and fly just
>> slightly less well than normal.
>> >>>
>> >>> Again, modern birds have superlative
>> aerodynamic capabilities and highly derived anatomies. They
>> also have a wide safety margin built in. In many cases the
>> basic functions of powered flight may be possible with far
>> less refined equipment.
>
> I never read Senter's conclusions in such absoute terms. To me, he simply 
> managed to point out that there was a range of humeral mobility thast had at 
> one end fully self-powered taxa (modern birds) and at the other end 
> flightless taxa (nonvolant theropods). _Confuciusornis_ (and Archie) are in 
> between. Considering their other flight adaptations were also (mostly) less 
> well developed, I tend to their being more gravity-powered than self-powered.
>
> In the case of Archie, a ground-effect glider possibly. _Confuciusornis_ is 
> more complicated. Very weird wing shape, only thing that really comes close 
> in modern birds are some Apodiformes (Apodidae and some Trochilidae), which 
> experience high airflow speeds over their wings.
>
> I would very much like it if someone reanalyzes hindlimb mobility (if it has 
> not been done). Possibly the infamous "squirrel pose" has more merit than 
> nowadays assumed. _Confuciusornis_ mainly arboricolous, with a basically 
> parabola-shaped down-and-up flight path, driven mainly by gravity and 
> supplemented (on the upward swing) with wingbeats, would presently be the 
> hypothesis I favor. But it's very very tentative.
>
> Still, its wing shape would probably work well under such conditions. Not 
> expertly, but there is only so much you can expect in the Early Cretaceous, 
> and it might have been the best there was for such a purpose. Perhaps it 
> *was* a piscivore and used such a flight path to ambush-predate fish as they 
> came to the water surface. The weird bill shape would also tie in well, but 
> this was probably not universal among Confuciornithidae. And as a further 
> parallel with Apodidae, the short tail. Overall it is very surprising to see 
> such an aerodynamic body there and then.
>
> In any case, Apodidae excel at upward/downward flight maneuvers without a 
> single wingbeat, and while Hirundinidae are somewhat less capable they are 
> also quite good. And they both have this narrow, pointed wing shape with 
> extremely elongated primaries and rather short secondaries.
>
> So, as regards fundamental flight capability, confuciusornithids were 
> entirely unlike Apodidae. But the similarities in wing shape are striking, 
> and we know that in modern birds this wing shape corresponds to high-speed 
> high-g flight powered mainly by gravity and conservation of momentum, with 
> wingbeats more for acceleration rather than gaining altitude.
>
> Someone whose university has a good design department might see if there is a 
> possibility to have a student CAD/CAM a model and study its mobility as a 
> thesis project. The _Microraptor_ example 
> (http://www.features.ku.edu/microraptors/) suggests that such a project would 
> be highly visible (read: "marketable"); the public would love it. And in the 
> case of _Confuciusornis_, the hypodigm is so good that it would be a very 
> robust study. So it seems like something that very much benefits all 
> involved, as well as science, as well as biology as a whole (because the 
> public will be reminded in an easily-accessible way why teaching evolution is 
> important). As oppsed to the _Microraptor_ project, a _Confuciusornis_ model 
> would need to be tested in wind channel, because angle-of-attack and similar 
> things need to be investigated.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Eike
>
>
>



-- 
Scott Hartman
Scientific Advisor/Technical Illustrator
(307) 921-9750
www.skeletaldrawing.com