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Needing to learn how to spell
Um, yes, maybe even meteorologist Anthony Watts (oh dear).
Utopianism's "sole function is to allow its devotees to condemn what exists in
the name of what does not." Jean-François Revel
--- On Sat, 13/2/10, Garth Godsman <maniraptor@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Garth Godsman <maniraptor@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Climate change vs BANDits
To: "Augusto Haro" <augustoharo@gmail.com>
Cc: "Dinosaur Mailing List" <dinosaur@usc.edu>
Received: Saturday, 13 February, 2010, 10:18 PM
Oh dear, AGW without the name calling? Can we hope for so much! ;)
A book? I obviously come to this from a pretty sceptical perspective and that's
going to colour anything I suggest. And really, given the way this has become
such a fast moving and fast changing issue over the last few months, I'd
recommend a couple of blogs.
For the mathematically and statistically minded, there's Climate Audit by Steve
McIntyre, one of the two Canadians who exposed the flaws with the Hockey Stick
http://climateaudit.org/
And there's metererologist Anthony Watts' Watts Up With That? The traffic for
this blog has exploded over the last year. http://wattsupwiththat.com/
Both men are agnostic on the matter of anthropogenic climate change, but both
feel that the evidence so far does not support the hysterical alarmism that has
been such an unfortunate feature of this matter.
And! - they are, unlike so many alarmists, unfailingly polite, good mannered
and generous to even those they disagree with. Plus they are open minded.
Unlike the people running Real Climate, who are as nasty as they are arrogant.
But obviously Real Climate would be a counterpoint to these, and then you could
make your own mind up http://www.realclimate.org/
Utopianism's "sole function is to allow its devotees to condemn what exists in
the name of what does not." Jean-François Revel
--- On Sat, 13/2/10, Augusto Haro <augustoharo@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Augusto Haro <augustoharo@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Climate change vs BANDits
> To: qi_leong@hotmail.com
> Cc: maniraptor@yahoo.com,
> Received: Saturday, 13 February, 2010, 9:56 PM
> Question from an ignorant.
> Can you recommend me a good, didactic (not trendy
> name-calling) book
> on global warming?
> Thank you very much.
>
> 2010/2/13 Jaime Headden <qi_leong@hotmail.com>:
> >
> > Grant Godsman wrote:
> >
> > <With respect, it is you who fails to understand
> the import and gravity
> > of the Climategate emails. Certainly the office of the
> freedom of
>
s not agree with
> you. They have
> > clearly stated that in their view breaches of the law
> took place. It is
> > only the fact that it is too late to prosecute under
> the relevant
> > legislation that those responsible will escape
> punishment.
> >
> > And to gloss over the issue of data hiding - something
> that has gone on
> > for years among this group of people - and not reflect
> on what this
> > means for free and open scientific enquiry is
> especially worrisome.
> >
> > The data that was eventually released was the highly
> adjusted and
> > manipulated data, not the raw data needed to evaluate
> whether or not
> > the adjustments etc were valid or not.>
> >
> > Recently this list spent almost a month discussing
> the issues of what journalism and science mean to one
> another. In this case, the above represents a
> misconstruction of the facts in the case. Were the emails
> leaked, the scientists at hand guilty of not revealing data
> that was already apparently available, and were actually
> guilty of modifying the data apart from the need to fit
> three to four completely different datasets together to form
> a continuum, this would say nothing to the matters that
> affect anthropogenic global warming, which is what Tom Holtz
> and others have already stated. The nature of AGW (it's
> truth or not) and what happened at Climategate are
> completely different issues, and it is inherently dishonest
> to assume that what occured with the "scandal" has anything
> to do with the data involved that argues for AGW.
> >
> > I say this without having any opinion on the nature
> o
>
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Jaime A. Headden
> >
> > "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B.
> Medawar (1969)
> >
> >
> > "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the
> ability to learn
> > from the experience of others, are also remarkable for
> their apparent
> > disinclination to do so." --- Douglas Adams (Last
> Chance to See)
> >
> >
> > "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger
> with a
> > different language and a new way of looking at things,
> the human race
> > has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to
> learn his language or
> > his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan
> (Beast With a Billion Backs)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------
> >> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 05:02:11 -0800
> >> From: maniraptor@yahoo.com
> >> To: dinosaur@usc.edu
> >> Subject: Re: Climate change vs BANDits
> >>
> >> "I'm not aware of a country other than the US of A
> where manmade global warming is a political issue.
> Elsewhere, it's a _scientific_ issue. As in "peer-reviewed
> primary literature"."
> >>
> >> What? You should get out more! ;)
> >>
> >> It's a political issue everywhere, not just the
> USA, because at heart the IPCC is not a scientific body. It
> is run via the UN by member nations (they are the ones who
> appoint the chairman etc) and reflects their interests.
> Always has and always will.
> >>
> >> It is naive to think anything else.
> >>
> >> If you think this issue isn't political anywhere
> else, you haven't been anywhere near the UK or Australia
> recently.
> >>
> >> With respect, it is you who fails to understand
> the import and gravity of the Climategate emails. Certainly
> the office of the freedom of information commission in the
> UK does not agree with you. They have clearly stated that in
> their view breaches of the law took place. It is only the
> fact that it is too late to prosecute under the relevant
> legislation that those responsible will escape punishment.
> >>
> >> And to gloss over the issue of data hiding -
>
and not reflect on what this means for free and
> open scientific enquiry is especially worrisome.
> >>
> >> The data that was eventually released was the
> highly adjusted and manipulated data, not the raw data
> needed to evaluate whether or not the adjustments etc were
> valid or not.
> >>
> >> And as the source code released by the hacker,
> (though th
the possibility that the
> information had been carelessly left in an open location),
> reveals, what we do see is an absolute mess.
> >>
> >> And now it transpires that the raw data has, er,
> "disappeared."
> >>
> >> Quite frankly, the various blogs at science.blogs
> have merely sought to defend the party line, almost without
> question. But events have left them behind and they have
> become virtually irrelevant to this debate.
> >>
> >> The lame response of 'nothing to see here, move
> along why don't you' is just not good enough.
> >>
> >> It may have been the hottest decade on record, not
> that that m
> >> ans terribly much, but, as Dr Phil Jones himself
> has admitted today, it was also a decade that saw no
> additional warming and that there was a slight cooling trend
> towards the end.
> >>
> >> What does all this mean? Really, who knows. Which
> is my basic point. We do not know enough to be stating with
> the kind of evangelical certainty that some have about what
> is going on, what is causing it and what the future holds.
> >>
> >> We should calm down and start trying to be
> cleverer about how we respond to climate change.
> >>
> >> Utopianism's "sole function is to allow its
> devotees to condemn what exists in the name of what does
> not." Jean-François Revel
> >>
> >>
> >> --- On Sat, 13/2/10, David Marjanovic wrote:
> >>
> >>> From: David Marjanovic
> >>> Subject: Re: Climate change vs BANDits
> >>> To: "DML"
> >>> Received: Saturday, 13 February, 2010, 8:19
> PM
> >>>> I don't think the science
> >>> of man made global warming is as settled as
> >>>> birds are dinosaurs.
> >>>
> >>> You can't think about stuff you don't know.
> You shoul
> >>> out less and read more. :-)
> >>>
> >>>> Too many ex vice presidents and
> environmental
> >>> loonies involved for a
> >>>> start.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> What do I care whether Al Gore is fat.
> >>>
> >>> I'm not aware of a country other than the US
> of A where
> >>> manmade global warming is a political issue.
> Elsewhere, it's
> >>> a _sci
erature".
> >>>
> >>>> Then there are so called scientists
> refusing to
> >>> publish their data
> >>>> and refusing to comply with freedom of
> >>> information requests.
> >>>
> >>> Climategategate: the scandal of quote-mining
> an enormous
> >>> number of purloined e-mails and not even
> understanding what
> >>> the quote-mined snippets mean.
> >>>
> >>> For instance, the alleged refusal to publish
> data is a
> >>> misunderstanding of the following two facts:
> 1) the
> >>> scientist in question doesn't own the data and
> therefore
> >>> doesn't have the right to publish them --
> addressing such
> >>> requests to him is simply a mistake; and 2)
> the data are
> >>> already in the public domain. Just downl
> >> here are
> >>> four independent series of measurements in the
> public
> >>> domain, and all show warming, warming,
> warming, warming.
> >>>
> >>> All this is documented in detail. For most of
> December and
> >>> January, there were several posts on it on http://scienceblogs.com per
> >>> week, and they all got a
> >>> lot of traffic.
> >>>
> >>>> Not to mention the coldest winter for
> decades.
> >>>
> >>> This decade is the warmest on record.
> >>>
> >>> I repeat: this decade is the warmest on
> record.
> >>>
> >>> More required reading: http://realclimate.org,
> >>> http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid, and first of all
> >>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7092614.stm
> >>> -- the latter explains how science itself is
> biased against
> >>> "climate skeptics".
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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