RE: New Mesozoic bird papers (advance publication)

["Jason Brougham" <jaseb@amnh.org>]

My mistake.

I did not know that the Tachyeres had wing spurs like the Anhimidae. I am
pleased that there is so much diversity and so much to know about birds! I
learn something new every week.

-Jason

> Indeed I did.
>
> http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2008/12/flying_steamer_ducks.php
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ronald Orenstein [mailto:ron.orenstein@rogers.com]
> Sent: 18 December 2010 15:30
> To: jaseb@amnh.org; dinosaur@usc.edu
> Subject: Re: New Mesozoic bird papers (advance publication)
>
> No, I think he means steamer ducks (Tachyeres), which are genuine ducks
> from
>
> southern South America and the Falklands.  They do have large wing spurs
> which
> are used in combat with other males, as do screamers.
>
>  Ronald Orenstein
> 1825 Shady Creek Court
> Mississauga, ON L5L 3W2
> Canada
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jason Brougham <jaseb@amnh.org>
> To: dinosaur@usc.edu
> Sent: Sat, December 18, 2010 10:00:14 AM
> Subject: RE: New Mesozoic bird papers (advance publication)
>
> Perhaps you mean screamers, which are the Anhimidae (not actually ducks).
>
>
>
>> I have just been reading about the flying steamer duck in Darren Naish's
>> Tetrapod Zoology Book 1.  This duck uses keratanised knobs on the
>> capometacarpi to beat other birds to death.  The duck from hell!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ronald Orenstein [mailto:ron.orenstein@rogers.com]
>> Sent: 17 December 2010 15:16
>> To: archosauromorph2@hotmail.com; dinosaur@usc.edu
>> Subject: Re: New Mesozoic bird papers (advance publication)
>>
>> Without having seen the paper, I wonder if climbing and prey capture are
>> the
>>
>> only options.  How about aggression between individuals of the same
>> species,
>>
>> which is what some spur-winged birds use their wings for today?
>>
>>  Ronald Orenstein
>> 1825 Shady Creek Court
>> Mississauga, ON L5L 3W2
>> Canada
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Brad McFeeters <archosauromorph2@hotmail.com>
>> To: dinosaur@usc.edu
>> Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 12:10:03 AM
>> Subject: RE: New Mesozoic bird papers (advance publication)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 15:51:09 +1100
>>> From: tijawi@gmail.com
>>> To: dinosaur@usc.edu
>>> Subject: Re: New Mesozoic bird papers (advance publication)
>>>
>>> Which brings me to this: "When birds developed an effective backstroke
>>> permitting easy ascent from flat surfaces, the need for manual claws
>>> disappeared, which would suggest that they were primarily used for
>>> climbing tree trunks and had little function in prey capture."
>>>
>>>
>>> I fail to see why manual claws couldn't be used for *both* climbing
>>> and prey capture - especially among the first birds. After all, if
>>> _Velociraptor_ had feathered forelimbs (based on the presence of quill
>>> knobs), and used its forelimbs in prey capture - why couldn't some
>>> early birds have done the same? Although I'm not suggesting that
>>> birds attacked large prey the way _Velociraptor_ did.
>>
>> If the claws were used for something other than climbing, why were they
>> lost
>> at
>> the same time birds developed the ability to ascend without climbing?
>> It's
>> obviously not an airtight deduction, but still an interesting
>> observation
>> to
>>
>> think about, especially if the correlated claw reduction + improved
>> backstroke
>> evolved more than once in different bird clades (did it?  I haven't read
>> the
>>
>> paper yet either).
>>
>>
>
>
> Jason Brougham
> Senior Principal Preparator
> Department of Exhibition
> American Museum of Natural History
> 81st Street at Central Park West
> 212 496 3544
> jaseb@amnh.org
>
>


Jason Brougham
Senior Principal Preparator
Department of Exhibition
American Museum of Natural History
81st Street at Central Park West
212 496 3544
jaseb@amnh.org


Jason Brougham
Senior Principal Preparator
Department of Exhibition
American Museum of Natural History
81st Street at Central Park West
212 496 3544
jaseb@amnh.org