Re: Dino reputation 'is exaggerated'

[don ohmes <d_ohmes@yahoo.com>]

Posted this to the list (twice), but it did not go
through, for whatever reason, so I'm sending it
one last time.

Don

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sigh. I did not say it was likely. I specifically said
it was unlikely. I said it was physically possible
_even_ for V.

As to your comments on injury avoidance and
predator/prey size ratios, these don't necessarily
hold true for packhunters, even in theory.
Self-sacrifice, even prior to reproduction, can be
conserved through natural selection in the pack (ie,
family) environment.

And then there are cougars...

As to sauropod defensive capabilities, please give me
a week or 10 days. I need to go to the library, I just
ain't got time right
now. 

Any sauropod skin experts out there that are willing
to weigh in?

Don

--- Jorge Dichenberg <jorgedich@yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> --- don ohmes <d_ohmes@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> It is concensus that sauros had good reason to make
> > their necks as light as possible. My hands-on
> > experience only includes cows, deer, alligators,
> > turtles, birds and rattlesnakes; however, I can
> > report
> > that mammalian skin can be _much_ tougher,
> relative
> > to
> > shear, than reptilian or bird skin. 
> 
> First, predator cannot hunt with high risk of
> injury.
> Otherwise, after several hunts they will get injured
> and die from starvation unable to hunt further.
> 
> In modern attacks of big predators, the prey tosses
> predator and additionally tries to injure it.
> Situation resembles a rodeo. In a few seconds
> predator
> must let go or risks breaking bones. 
> 
> So modern predator or predators must weigh enough to
> hold the prey still by their sheer weight while
> biting
> (polar bears, canids) or strangling it (cats). 
> 
> I don't see why sauropod would move so slow that
> small
> Velociraptor could hold and climb along on the body
> safely. It was not a tortoise. It could walk, rear,
> whip tail and wipe neck against the ground.
> 
> In modern times, 800-1000 kg animal (really big Gaur
> or Cape Buffalo - neck thickness similar to cow - or
> medium black rhino) is rarely attacked by 160kg
> tiger
> or several 140kg lions. So I don't expect that
> 1000kg
> Terontosaurus could be brought down by 20-40kg
> Velociraptors.
> 
> Your second assumption is sauropod skin. From
> paleontological data, at least some sauropods had
> skin
> covered with bony pieces. I am unaware of precise
> measurements, but heard that skin has to withstand
> forces generated by moving body. It seems likely
> that
> skin thickness scales up with size and big sauropod
> had skin even thicker than crocodile or pig.
> Difficult
> to penetrate for Velociraptor teeth.
> 
> So I think scenario of small velociraptor hunting by
> clinging and biting large sauropod is extremely
> unlikely.
> 
> Jerzy
> 
> 
> 
>       
>               
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